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  #11  
Old 11-05-2007, 04:15 AM
Macon Marauder's Avatar
Macon Marauder Macon Marauder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JACook View Post
The AOD/AODE/4R70W/4R75W series transmissions use two planetary sets, in a Ravigneaux
configuration, sharing a common planet carrier. This is similar to what was used in the old FMX.
I think you may be thinking of the E40D/4R100, which is basically a modified C6, and uses an
additional overdrive planetary gear.

Rob, I know it's a bit late to ask this now, but did you ever try to grab manual 2nd when the
trans was acting up? If it will consistently shift manually into 2nd, but not automatically, you
may have a problem with the intermediate roller clutch and/or the snap ring that holds it in
place. Otherwise, it's possible the 'SS1' solenoid is failing, or has a bad O-Ring. Did it have
a tendency to also skip the 2-3 shift, and go straight into 4th?
Jeff,

Funny you should ask. I tried shifting manually. It would go into 2nd with no trouble. Then when I shifted into "D" (there is no 3rd on the selector) it would drop back down into 1st. And stay there until I manually shifted again or it decided to do it itself. I didn't notice it skipping 3rd but didn't drive it very far.

My son drives this car and he insists it was fine until Thursday. It has about 60K miles on it. The local Ford dealer has done 2 flush and fills at about 25K and 50K due to the infamous 3-4 shudder. It hasn't done that in quite a while.

I searched Stang forums and found some interesting stories. It seems these transmissions are know for the 1-2 accumulator breaking and causing hard and/or delayed 1-2 shift. I think I'll pull it out tomorrow when I get home from work.

Also, the manual says to use Mercon fluid. Some Stang and TBird sites have suggested Mercon V. Anybody have any opinions about that?

I gotta get it fixed soon! My 17 year-old is driving my Marauder!

~ Rob
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  #12  
Old 11-05-2007, 04:20 AM
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Macon Marauder Macon Marauder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Morton View Post
Lilalleycat is correct. It is a plug to keep dirt out until the drivetrain is installed. The guy that designed it put the little handle on it so they could pull it out but the line boys understood it can't hurt anything inside so they always just push it inside, saving time on the assembly line.

I worked for General Motors dealerships, specializing in automatic transmissions. The TurboHydramatic 700R4/4L60/4L60E is a unique design. It made 4 forward gears (plus reverse) with only two planetary gear sets. The AODE/4R70W/4R75W uses three, so the clutch and sprag setups are probably more like the old TH300R. Been so long I can't tell you what might be wrong.

I can tell you this. Don't put any of those "Mechanic-in-a Can" products in it. If you're going to have it fixed, that junk will only wind up confusing proper diagnosis of the cause of the failure to a good AT techncian and pollute the convertor with solvents that could cause the repaired transmission to fail.
David,

Thanks. I'd be nervous about putting any snake-oil type products into the trans. I saw where someone on a Stang forum recommended "Shudder Doctor" or something for the dreaded 3-4 shudder these trans are known for. Yikes!

Cassidy will enjoy her souvenir. She thinks the little plunger is cute...

~ Rob
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  #13  
Old 11-05-2007, 06:28 AM
David Morton David Morton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JACook View Post
The AOD/AODE/4R70W/4R75W series transmissions use two planetary sets, in a Ravigneaux configuration, sharing a common planet carrier. This is similar to what was used in the old FMX.
I think you may be thinking of the E40D/4R100, which is basically a modified C6, and uses an
additional overdrive planetary gear.
Thanks. I know absolutely nothing about Ford product transmissions, but was assuming that I saw an overdirve planetary gearset sitting on the techs table when I had mine built back when I lost 3rd gear. I never heard the term Ravigneaux. Is that what the 700 is?

Going by what MM just posted I'd say a roller clutch or sprag holding 2nd gear is blasted, eh? Would it be holding in 3rd too? And then be overrunnung in 4th?
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  #14  
Old 11-05-2007, 09:10 AM
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meteorite meteorite is offline
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Speaking of Ravigneaux ...

The new 6-speed automatics from Ford (6R60, 6R80, and 6R140) also have a Ravigneaux gearset, but with an extra "simple" planetary set up ahead of it.

So, you can think of them as a 4R75 with a switchable (ON/off) overdrive up front.
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2003 300A - Black (VIN = xxxxxxxxxxx600051 *** Build Date = 3/13/2002 )
Now with: Trilogy Kit #220 + Alternative Auto Performance Tune + 4.10 Gears + Metco control arms and Watts Link + Addco front and rear sta-bars + Dynotech Metal Matrix Driveshaft + Weldcraft widened wheels & Nitto drag radials.

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  #15  
Old 11-05-2007, 12:12 PM
David Morton David Morton is offline
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I once thought of that when I was working on a 200-4R from a Caprice. I said to my self, "Self, if they could widen the ratios enough in the input and reaction gearsets, you could turn the overdrive set on and off in between the wider ratios and have a six speed." That was back in '91.

Don't tell me some tech working somewhere patented the idea and is now living on his own island in the Carribean.
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  #16  
Old 11-05-2007, 05:50 PM
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Macon Marauder Macon Marauder is offline
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Success! :) (maybe)

I pulled the 1-2 accumulator out when I got home this evening. Eureka! The spring is in 3 pieces. The piston and cylinder look to be in pretty good shape. I think we caught it before any serious damage was done. There was only minimal metal on the magnet and in the pan. And it was all fine dust. So...

Off to the dealer tomorrow for the upgraded hardware. The GT may be back on the road tomorrow night!
(and I'll have my Marauder back!)
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  #17  
Old 11-06-2007, 12:35 AM
David Morton David Morton is offline
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Would that cause the piston to cock sideways and leak out the pressure? I'm not up on the design of that tranny. Does it come out of the side of the case? If so it's possibly a servo, applying a band.

The 700R4 had a 2-4 band servo that acted as an accumulator for third, but generally we used to play around with and even remove springs from valve body accumulators to get bang-hard shifts from high output engines in drag racing. That's why I wondered about the 'accumulator' you speak of. But those mods would sometimes break stuff they applied so hard. Was it shifting really hard before?

Ahh, I remember now. Input clutches on, (with or without low/reverse) 1st gear. Add 2-4 band fluid, (low/reverse hydraulically locked out at the manual valve from D2 up to neutral) second gear. Third clutch fluid overcomes 2-4 servo taking off the band while simultaneously applying third clutches, third gear. Lastly, overdrive fluid adds to second gear fluid (a stacked on second piston) to overcome the third gear fluid that had taken off the band, reapplying the band thusly driving the overrun sprag for fourth gear. No engine braking at all.

Two gearsets. An input set and the reaction set. Not a combination type input set. A simple input set, one ring gear, one set of planetaries and one sun gear. Very compact stackup too. No room for a golf tee anywhere inside that case.

But that 2-4 band servo setup was problematic for really high horsepower, high-speed applications. I don't see how anybody could redesign those pistons to apply fast enough and hard enough for 500 ft/lbs coming from from the engine during the 3-4 shift and not smoke the band.
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  #18  
Old 11-06-2007, 07:36 AM
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Macon Marauder Macon Marauder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Morton View Post
Would that cause the piston to cock sideways and leak out the pressure? I'm not up on the design of that tranny. Does it come out of the side of the case? If so it's possibly a servo, applying a band.

The 700R4 had a 2-4 band servo that acted as an accumulator for third, but generally we used to from high output engines in drag racing. That's why I wondered about the 'accumulator' you speak of. But those mods would sometimes break stuff they applied so hard. Was it shifting really hard before?

Ahh, I remember now. Input clutches on, (with or without low/reverse) 1st gear. Add 2-4 band fluid, (low/reverse hydraulically locked out at the manual valve from D2 up to neutral) second gear...
David,

You got pretty deep there and lost me, friend.

The car hasn't been modded and was shifting fine until it decided that it was really fond of first gear. Based on internet research, I'll say yes: the piston got loose when the spring broke so the seals were leaking. I could move it with my fingers. And in this tranny, the 1-2 accumulator is outside of the valve body, on the driver's side, near the front.

The piston and spring are cast. In 97 or 98 Ford changed to steel for both. That's what I'll be using. Funny you should mention playing around with springs to get bang-hard shifts. Some articles I've read advise leaving 1 of the springs out to firm up the 1-2 shift.

~ Rob
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Build date: 11/17/2003 - Delivered: 03/24/2004
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  #19  
Old 11-06-2007, 05:34 PM
David Morton David Morton is offline
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I meant was it accessable without having to remove the pan?

Sounds like a band servo. And yes, removing a spring from underneath a servo piston could sure firm up a band apply. As long as there was another spring there to take the band off fast enough. Does the piston rod go all the way through the case? How long is it? Is it flat on both ends or does it look like it's doing some work there on one end?

Now you got me curious. Gimme the link your using in this research you're doing.

BTW, Youmans' Chevrolet is where I got my start as a factory tech.
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  #20  
Old 11-06-2007, 06:00 PM
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Macon Marauder Macon Marauder is offline
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I had to remove the pan. No rods, the piston just has a spring at top and bottom and is held in place by a snap ring.

Here's a pretty good write up:
http://www.f150online.com/forums/lin...ator_paper.htm
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Build date: 11/17/2003 - Delivered: 03/24/2004
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